Guide for an Afternoon Purim Seudah Going into Shabbat Dinner (pores mapah u’mikadesh)

Question:

Can one have a Purim Seudah late in the day, and have it enter into the Shabbat meal?

Answer:

Yes. This is the principle of porse mapeh u’mekadesh (SA OH 271:4) the if one is in the middle of the meal on Friday towards sunset, he or she can spread a cloth over the bread, make kiddush, and continue eating. The following is a guide for how to do this.

SHORT VERSION (for long version, with sources and discussion, see below)

1. One may have the Purim seudah in the late afternoon
2. Stop eating before sunset 
3. Bring out two loaves of bread 
4. Spread a cover over all the bread  
5. Kiddush – Have you been drinking wine during the Purim seudah?

1. Yes -> Say kiddush WITHOUT בורא פרי הגפן but WITH holding a glass of wine
2. No -> Say Kiddush as normal, WITH Borei Pri HaGefen

1. Bread – Do NOT make hamotzi, but have two loaves 
2. Eat a kebeitza (or kezayit, bi’dieved) of bread after kiddush
3. You can finish your bread immediately, even before tzeit hakokhavim
4. Birkat Hamazon – Did you ate a kezayit after tzeit?

1. Yes -> Say רצה. Do NOT say Al HaNissim in the second brakhah. 

• Al HaNissim  can be added in haRachaman at the end

1. No – > Say Al HaNissim, not Retzeih 

Davening

1. You MAY NOT daven Kabbalat Shabbat after the Shabbat meal
2. You MAY daven BOTH Kabbalat Shabbat and Ma’ariv between the Purim meal and the Shabbat Meal (right before pores mapah). You do not say another Ha’Motzei or Borei Pri HaGefen when you return to the meal. 
3. You MAY daven Kabbalat Shabbat before pores mapah and then Ma’ariv at the end of the Shabbat meal.
4. My advice would be to do the last option -Kabbalat Shabbat while at the table (or at least Lekha Dodi and Mizmor Shir), and then to do pores mapah and then Ma’ariv after the Shabbat meal. This could be a very nice experience, singing Kabbalat Shabbat with everyone seated at the table, and then lead into Kiddush

LONG VERSION

May one have the seudah in the late afternoon?

First, we should note that regarding the timing itself in the late afternoon in general, Rema SA OH 695:2 writes that it is best to do the seudah when the day is still long and eat the majority of the seudah during the day. Nevertheless, this is just one minhag among a range of minhagim, and some poskim specifically prefer the end of the day for the seudah, especially if it means having a nice meal when done then.  There is definitely a practice when Purim falls out on Friday to go from Purim seudah into a Shabbat meal and to do porse mapah. I have done it in the past and will be doing it this year. I feel that it enables you to have a more serious Seudat Purim and Seudat Shabbat. For more detail, see the footnote.

Pores Mapah – A How To Guide

To now turn to the key points to attend to when one does pores mapah and moves from the Purim meal to the Shabbat meal:

1. Stop eating before sunset 

• Once the time of kiddush comes – which is sunset when Shabbat starts -you may not eat without making kiddush. – SA  OH 271:4 – אסור לטעום כלום קודם שיקדש, אפי’ מים. ואפי’ אם התחיל מבעוד יום, צריך להפסיק, שפורס מפה ומקדש 

• Bring out two loaves of bread 

1. • Although you will not be making המוציא (see below), the practice of starting the meal with two loaves of bread is independent of the brakha

• Spread a cover over all the bread  

• This is the pores mapah part
• The kiddush needs to introduce the Shabbat meal and define the eating afterwards. Thus, the bread, which represents the seudah, must be covered and only “brought to the table,” i.e., uncovered after kiddush is made.

• Kiddush – Have you been drinking wine during the Purim seudah?

• Yes -> Say kiddush WITHOUT בורא פרי הגפן but WITH holding a glass of wine

• This is the mekadesh part
• Kiddush still requires you to hold a glass of wine -this is independent of whether you will be making the brakha over it or not.
• Source – SA OH 271:4 – ואם היו שותים יין תחלה, אינו אומר אלא קידוש בלבד בלא ברכת היין 

• No -> Say Kiddush as normal, WITH Borei Pri HaGefen

1. Bread – Do NOT make hamotzi –
   • Since you have already been eating bread at the Purim meal
   • Have two loaves, as mentioned above.
   • This is debated. Some say that kiddush causes an interruption and you do say hamotzi. But the ruling is that you do not. 
   • Source – SA OH 271:4  – – וי”א שאף כשמקדש על היין אינו מברך המוציא.  And as clarified by MB #18 – דס”ל דקידוש לא הוי הפסק. וכיון דספק ברכות להקל יש לתפוס כהי”א [אחרונים]: 

1. Eat a kebeitza (or kezayit, bi’dieved) of bread after kiddush
   • Source SA OH 291:1 – זהיר מאד לקיים סעודה שלישית ואף אם הוא שבע יכול לקיים אותה בכביצה. And as clarified by MB #2 -וי”א שאפילו בכזית יוצא ידי הסעודה ונכון להחמיר לכתחלה אם אפשר לו: 

1. You can finish your bread immediately, even before tzeit hakokhavim
   • Since you accepted Shabbat, you can fulfil the mitzvah of seudat Shabbat right away
     • Source – SA OH 267:2 – ובפלג המנחה יכול להדליק ולקבל שבת בתפלת ערבית ולאכול מיד
   • Some say that it is ideal to eat a kezayit after tzeit so that the mitzvah can be fulfilled when it fully Shabbat
     • See MB 267:5 – ויש חולקין וסוברין שיזהר למשוך סעודתו עד הלילה ויאכל כזית בלילה וטעמם דכיון דהג’ סעודות ילפינן ממה דכתיב אכלוהו היום כי שבת היום לה’ וגו’ בעינן שיקיים אותם ביום שבת עצמו ולכתחלה נכון לחוש לדבריהם: 

1. Birkat Hamazon – Did you ate a kezayit after tzeit?

1. Yes -> Say רצה. Do NOT say Al HaNissim in the second brakhah. 

• Al HaNissim  can be added in haRachaman at the end
• Normally, when Shabbat did not follow Purim, but the meal extended into the night, we would say Al Hanissim in the second brakhah, since we would go by when the seudah began, i.e., in the daytime, when it was Purim.
• Source: SA OH 695:3 – אומר על הנסים בברכת המזון בברכת הארץ; ואם התחיל סעודתו ביום ומשכה עד הלילה, אומר: על הנסים, דבתר תחלת סעודה אזלינן  
• Nevertheless, here it is competing with Retzeih, which should be added based on when the seudah ended. It is considered competing because Purim and Shabbat are on different days.  In this case, since Retzeih is the weightier addition (you would need to repeat if you didn’t say it), it wins out. 
• Source: MB #15 – כשחל פורים בע”ש ומשכה סעודתו עד הלילה חייב להזכיר של עכשיו דהיינו רצה וא”כ איך יאמר על הניסים דהוי תרתי דסתרי וכיון דאין הזכרת עה”נ חמור כ”כ לכן יאמר רק של שבת. וכ”ז אפילו כשלא התפלל עדיין ובפרט אם התפלל מקודם בודאי אינו כדאי להזכיר אח”כ עה”נ בבהמ”ז וכדלקמיה:

1. No – > Say Al HaNissim, not Retzeih 

Davening

1. You MAY NOT daven Kabbalat Shabbat after the Shabbat meal
   • Kabbalat Shabbat is about receiving Shabbat, and you cannot say it after tzeit hakokhavim, and Shabbat has already begun

1. You MAY daven BOTH Kabbalat Shabbat and Ma’ariv between the Purim meal and the Shabbat Meal (right before pores mapah). 
   • You do not say another Ha’Motzei or Borei Pri HaGefen when you return to the meal
   • Davening Ma’ariv it is not considered an interruption (although this is a matter of debate, this is the way we rule), and when you return from davening to the meal you are not required to make any new brakhot. (If there is a היסח הדעת, you lose consciousness that you have to return to the meal, you would have to make brakhot when you return.)
   • Source SA OH 178:2 – אבל אם הניח מקצת חברים…ולכן מי שפסק סעודתו והלך לבית אחר… כשחוזר לסעודה א”צ לברך 
   • There is a benefit that it would make the Shabbat meal totally distinct. However, I would not advise it, because:

• It would make it hard to get back into eating once you had a big meal and interrupted it like this.
• Given the various debates re hefsek it is better to not be mafsik if you don’t need to 

1. You MAY daven Kabbalat Shabbat before pores mapah and then Ma’ariv at the end of the Shabbat meal.
   • That way you are saying Kabbalat Shabbat before tzeit and Ma’ariv after everything so there is no interruption in the meal

Conclusion:

My advice would be to do the last option -Kabbalat Shabbat while at the table (or at least Lekha Dodi and Mizmor Shir), and then to do pores mapah and then Ma’ariv after the Shabbat meal

• • This could be a very nice experience, singing Kabbalat Shabbat with everyone seated at the table, and then lead into Kiddush